Edward Snowden described this attack as indistinguishable from terrorism, and he's right. The attack was designed to create harm and sow fear in the general population of Lebanon for an ideological/military purpose. That's the very definition of terrorism, at least in my home country of Canada.
Examining the tactic from the perspective of the laws of war, it was also a war crime. Any attack against enemy combatants must, without exception, be designed to avoid or at least minimize the harm to non-combatants. No attack may legally take place without analyzing the specific harm the attack could cause to civilians. Obviously it's impossible to make such an analysis when you send thousands of booby-trapped pagers into the general population of Lebanon, even if you believe they're going to be distributed to Hezbollah. The pagers could end up in anyone's hands, not just those of Hezbollah combatants.
Terrorism and war crimes seems to be what Israel is all about these days.
Snowden is utterly wrong. These were Hezbollah's pagers ordered by Hezbollah operatives and meant for Hezbollah terrorists. Your argument based on Snowden is nonsense. There is no evidence of any non-Hezbollah individuals harmed. Hezbollah is a military terrorist operation armed by Iran.
Hezbollah has been attacking Israel since Oct 8, 2023. For no reason other than to support Hamas a terrorist organization. Hezbollah operatives are who held these phones. If anything it was a the safest attack of its kind in the history of armed warfare...specifically directed to Hezbollah.
That's incorrect. The actual number of civilians killed is irrelevant. The war crime was committed by using an indiscriminate weapon. Under the Geneva Conventions, any weapon employed must be be used in a way that discriminates between combatants and non-combatants. The Israelis had no way to know where the explosive pagers would be or who would have them when the detonated them. That's "indiscriminate" as defined by the Conventions, and hence a war crime. For the same reason most people consider the use of cluster weapons in civilian areas to be a war crime. The bomblets that don't initially explode remain to harm civilians afterwards.
The second war crime committed by the Israelis in this attack concerns proportionality. Prior to mounting it, every attack must be analyzed to see if any harm caused to civilians is proportional to the military advantage to be gained. If you cannot determine whether the attack will be proportionate in that regard, you must discontinue the attack or find another way to mount it. In this attack there was no way for the Israelis to sufficiently analyze whether the harm to civilians was proportionate. Hence it was a war crime.
In brief, REGARDLESS of the number of civilians harmed in an attack, using a weapon indiscriminately is a war crime. It's also a war crime to harm civilians disproportionately to the military advantage gained, again regardless of the actual number of civilians who are harmed.
Reports are that the pagers were purchased by Hezbollah for their own operatives, and not by anyone else. IF that is true, then denoting them is not indiscriminate.
Thank you for quoting Snowden. According to these and the goons who support them these people do not have the right to defend/protect themselves or fellow neighbors. IF they do they are "terrorists". But the US and allied thugs and goons can do whatever the f it please murdering, dispossessing, TERRORIZING and genociding millions, half of which are children, Call it "installing democracy" and we are supposed to unquestionably buy that cr*p.
Those are NOT God's people. Unless of course the gOD we are talking about is a demon such as Moloch or Remphen.
My point is that, how do we know this was done indiscriminately? If the Israelis had a way of channeling the pagers to Hezbollah, then it’s not indiscriminate.
You're focusing narrowly on the weapon itself, but it's not the weapon that creates a war crime. In every instance it's *how* the weapon is used that makes an attack lawful or a violation of the Geneva Conventions. For example, a bomb could be dropped from an airplane in a lawful manner, or it could be dropped in a way that does not discriminate between combatants and civilians. In the latter case that's a war crime.
In the case of these pagers, there's no way for the Israelis to predict with any certainty where they would wind up. Presumably they believed the pagers were going to Hezbollah, but from that point there's no way to know who Hezbollah gave them to. They may have been given to combatants and non-combatants alike. That means the attack was indiscriminate. Nor is it possible to determine beforehand what risk the devices would create to innocent third-party civilians when they explode. This again is a war crime because preceding every attack, combatants must analyze the possible harm that could befall non-combatants in order to determine *proportionality.*
Terrorists do not consider proportionality nor do they distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. That's why Edward Snowden referred to this attack as indistinguishable from terrorism.
If there had been significant civilian casualties, you can be sure that Hezbollah would put those videos out. It doesn’t seem that way, so this seems to have pretty successfully hit Hezbollah operatives.
You can argue about the definition a combatant: what about a logistics guy within the organization?
Personally I would call that person a legitimate target.
Very few bombs are capable of discriminating in any way, as we learned often in Iraq and Afghanistan. Laws of war are incredibly messy and imperfect, especially when you’re fighting a guerrilla army.
My own feeling is that I fault the Israelis for not making a real effort to get civilians out of Gaza before the invasion. That might well be a war crime.
However, there’s so much blame to go around on both sides that for me there are no ‘good guys’.
At this time you have no way of assessing the level of civilian casualties across Lebanon, nor of Hezbollah combatants for that matter. What "seems" to be the case to you may be a far cry from the reality on the ground.
That an attack successfully kills an enemy combatant, or some number of them, is IRRELEVANT as to the attack's legality. To avoid being a war crime, the attack must be mounted in a lawful way using weapons that discriminate between combatants and civilians. This attack did not discriminate. It launched lethal means against an unknown number of civilians and combatants alike. That's a war crime.
By a "logistics guy" I assume you mean a civilian one. In that case he is a non-combatant and may not be targeted, anymore than Hezbollah can lawfully target, say, a civilian bus driver in Israel. You might want to give some thought to what you're proposing when you accept attacks against people like that.
On the other hand, if you're talking about a "combatant logistics guy", then of course he's a legitimate target. But that's not the point. You cannot use unlawful means to target enemy combatants. And using indiscriminate methods is unlawful. Chemical and biological weapons are other examples of indiscriminate methods of attacking your enemy.
Or are you saying that Israel may use unlawful methods to kill its enemies, even when it causes mass casualties as this attack did?
Don't misunderstand the term 'discriminate' in this context. Weapons are unthinking; they don't discriminate themselves. Under the laws of war it's the user of the weapon that must use it in a discriminate way. What is meant by discriminate and indiscriminate is spelled out in the Geneva Conventions which are written so that every combatant can understand them. There can be no misunderstanding their meaning.
The laws of war are utterly impartial. It matters not who the good guys are, who the aggrieved party is, or who started the conflict. It's not necessary to make a subjective judgment on the matter. An attack is either mounted lawfully or it's a war crime, regardless of who commits the act.
The ability to explode these pagers is a valuable asset. Using that asset is a one-time option. So you would do it only if the purpose was worth while. Disrupting communications is especially valuable on the eve of a major attack.
According to the Telegram account of Amir Tsarfati in Israel,
"Israel will be mapping out injuries, hospital admissions, social media posts, electronic communications, news footage, and medical records, linking them all to people who had these pagers today. Forget the injuries and deaths, Israel just created a massive and growing trove of information about both known and previously unknown Hezbollah militants, as well as their supporters, partners, family members, colleagues, workplaces, vehicles, and homes. They just created an incredibly dense and up to date social graph of an entire terrorist network, across Lebanon as well as neighboring countries. It is incredible what they just did...
The Syrian Druze journalist Fitzal Al-Qassem wrote, "What happened today to Hezbollah can be classified as the most fantastic pre-emptive strike in modern history. It can be compared to Israel's pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian Air Force before the 6 day War. Today, Hezbollah has thousands of brand new disabled fighters, and if they enter the war now, its wounded will not even find one free bed in the hospitals in Lebanon because the hospitals are now bursting with injured."
Even worse-Hezbollah has lost its security and military means of communication.
Osint Arab sources report that yesterday an American Air Force aircraft of the type: was spotted off the coast of Lebanon. EC-130H Compass Call. This aircraft is known to be used for electronic warfare.
Panic in Iran's revolutionary guard corps. They are all trying to get rid of their communications systems."
The people running Israel believe in collective responsibility and collective punishment, and for those who said all Arabs are animals and suggested 'nuking' Gaza, there are no innocents.
It reminds me of the nineteenth-century American general who said 'The only good Injun is a dead Injun.'
Unfortunately for innocents in Israel, like many of those killed and abducted on October 7, some leaders on the other side think the same way.
All kinds of people in Lebanon use a pager provided by Hezbollah from the 5,000 pager shipment these came from?
Almost nobody uses $200 pagers when cell phones are available for that price, especially in Third World countries that import from China. Japan's last pager service shut down in 2019.
""Third World countries that import from China""?!?!?! and the US (FiRST WORLD) doesn't do that?!?!? The majority of the cr*p we use IS CHINESE!!! OMG, you people are so freaking stupid or evil. Perhaps both.
Lol) The batteries didn't explode. The devices were booby-trapped even before they entered Lebanon. It will be easy to establish who did it, there are few options. Either directly at the manufacturer's factory - they say it is located in Taiwan, or in the warehouse of a wholesale supplier. The manufacturer of these pagers is also called. But I will not write yet - the information is not official.
I have reviewed some new videos. There is definitely an explosion when the pager received a message. I agree that it would not be "normal" for a lithium battery to explode that way. Some years ago a Hamas or PLO terrorist was killed by an exploding cellphone. That was because his cellphone was booby trapped. This also could be the case, but it suggests a huge and highly coordinated operation. We may learn more in future.
If the phones had explosives in them, why would they put such a tiny amount that mostly caused injuries? Even a small amount of explosive would have been enough to kill someone holding it by their face.
مصادر خاصة لسكاي نيوز عربية: الموساد قام بوضع كمية من مادة PETN شديدة الانفجار على بطارية الأجهزة وتم تفجيرها عبر رفع درجة حرارة البطارية
Exclusive sources for Sky News Arabia: Mossad placed a quantity of highly explosive PETN on the devices’ battery and detonated it by raising the battery’s temperature
There's no reason for an ordinary citizen to use a pager instead of a much more versatile cell phone, unless they needed to receive encrypted texts from Hezbollah.
“The Israeli government did not tamper with the Hezbollah phones that exploded, defense and intelligence officials say. It manufactured them as part of an elaborate ruse.”
“Israel had put into motion a plan to establish a shell company that would pose as an international pager producer.
“By all appearances, B.A.C. Consulting was a Hungary-based company that was under contract to produce the devices on behalf of a Taiwanese company, Gold Apollo. In fact, it was part of an Israeli front, according to three intelligence officers briefed on the operation. They said at least two other shell companies were created as well to mask the real identities of the people creating the pagers: Israeli intelligence officers.”
The model of the pagers that exploded in Lebanon is believed to be the Gold Apollo AR-924 from Apollo Electronic Paging Company, a company based in Taiwan. But the taiwanese company denied this Wednesday, September 18, it had manufactured the pagers
"These are not our products... They are not our products from start to finish," company director Hsu Ching-kuang told reporters in Taipei.
He was reacting to reports published by the New York Times daily claiming that the pagers were ordered from Gold Apollo, citing American officials and other nationalities speaking on condition of anonymity.
In comments reported by the Reuters news agency, Gold Apollo said the beepers were not manufactured by it but by a company called BAC, which has a license to use its brand.
"The product was not ours. It just had our brand on it," Hsu Ching-Kuang said.
In a statement, the Taiwanese company said the AR-924 model was produced and sold by BAC. “We are only licensing the brand and are not involved in the design or manufacturing of this product,” the company said.
Hsu Ching-Kuang added that he did not know how the beepers could have been tricked into detonating. The Gold Apollo company said it was also a victim of the situation: “We may not be a big company, but we are a responsible company,” said Hsu Ching-Kuang.
I find it highly unlikely that the pagers were hacked in order to make their batteries explode. Typically lithium batteries catch fire rather than explode. There are no reports of multiple fires, only reports of explosions making the battery theory improbable.
I suspect the pagers were made with explosives implanted in them, and then substituted for the harmless ones for distribution to Hezbollah. Images of the damage caused would also indicate dedicated explosives. That’s just a theory mind you, no proof either way as yet.
There will be hard proof, because some didn't explode, didn't have a battery, or were somehow shielded from the code transmission. These will be analysed.
Another factor that suggests explosives were secretly planted in the pagers is that clearly the Israelis weren't simply trying to disable Hezbollah's communication network. After all, if they could hack the pagers they could've disabled the network electronically at any time. Instead, they somehow rigged the pagers to explode. The intent obviously was harm whoever was carrying the device, not merely to disable the network.
Yes, but what you are totally ignoring is that most of these devices were simply being used by civilians. This is yet another appalling act by “Israel” - they just really don’t care who or how many they kill.
For goodness sake America, Britain, France etc, stop these vile Zionists
As explained in this post, they were not regular pagers but much larger two way communication pagers with a correspondingly larger battery. The ones in use on the targeted network had lithium batteries.
What normally happens is that as lithium batteries overheat, they build up internal gas pressures, the case cracks open releasing an intense flame that can't be put out under normal circumstances. They don't explode like a hand grenade but more like a balloon popping if the balloon was filled with burning gasoline. The heat and flames are intense so that even if the actual fire area is small, it will ignite anything it is in contact with. People remember the event as the object exploding even though that isn't quite accurate. If it happens to you, the distinction seems unimportant.
Two way pagers are a thing. They don't look like what most people think a radio would look like. They don't function in ways that most people expect a radio to do. They use a different platform than those that most people associate with radios. Your typical multiband radio will not pick up the communication between two way pagers. People don't use them in any way near the same fashion as their two way radios. Hence they are called two way pagers.
My understanding is that most current systems use the F.M. radio band at some point in their operation. At least some of them use g.p.s. for the positioning apparently required for some such systems to operate.
People that use them call them two way pagers. People that market them call them two way pagers. The built out systems are more robust than cell phone technology and thus are favored by some institutions. Apparently Hezbollah is into it as well (who knew, since it requires a considerable operation and investment to work over a widespread area).
However, if you want to call them two way radios that's fine by me. It's just that the people that use them will think you are talking about something else. But I do wonder if it is at all possible to hack into a two way radio communication system in such a way as to make the devices start exploding simultaneously. My personal belief is that there is some characteristic of two way pager systems that makes that possible where it is not on a two way radio system.
Why do I get the impression that you have never had an FCC license or repaired radio equipment like I did, professionally, for 1.5 years when not doing so as an amateur radio operator for several years?
The pagers in question had small bombs in them that were detonated by remote control. They were used to hide and trigger the bombs, not being such.
I agree, based on watching the videos, that the devices most likely did not explode from overheating lithium batteries.
If you want to convince the tens of thousands of purveyors and purchasers of two way pagers that they are not such and are simply two way radios, you should direct your comments to them. I have never and will never use one so I will just follow established terminology simply to avoid confusion.
I wonder how many two way radio systems you worked on had a text messaging format plus voice, encryption and employed gps as part of their function. All on a network with thousands of users spread over hundreds of miles. There is a term for such systems that people who use them apply to the technology. Two way pager.
According to alternative media, the pagers were made in Hungary to order for the Israeli government, and had small charges of PETN next to their batteries. The company in Hungary made them for a major maker of them in Taiwan and they were branded in the name of the Taiwanese seller. Israel has admitted that they committed this act of terrorism.
What is not a two way pager and contains only triple AAA batteries? A quick search shows two way pagers ranging from 20 dollars to four hundred dollars in price. A similar search for two way pager batteries show prices ranging from ten dollars to 700 dollars for the polymer lithium batteries. That is just looking at the first page search results. Not doubt there are more robust and expensive systems are available.
Many commenting here and elsewhere don't seem to understand that Hezbollah is a political party which dominates the Lebanese government as well as having an armed wing which dominates Lebanon's defense.
They also dominate civil society in Shia areas, so a general 'attack on Hezbollah members' is a very wide-spectrum escalation.
There was an article published in August on this platform named Samson option for Ukraine, quote: "In its military doctrine Israel contains a strategy called Samson Option. It is named after the biblical figure Samson, who destroyed himself along with his enemies. In the context of Israeli defense policy, the Samson Option suggests that Israel might use nuclear weapons as a last resort if the nation faces an existential threat, ensuring mutual destruction or severe retaliation against its adversaries.
As the last 2.5 years have shown, Ukraine needs to have its own Samson Option with the nuclear deterrence it entails. As the Western allies have proved to be too neurotic and unreliable, this is its only long-term security guarantee..." End of quote.
That would be interesting if true. No proof at the moment.
WUT? Is it any other entity is capable of doing so? #Pegasus #TakeTheBSElsewhere
Edward Snowden described this attack as indistinguishable from terrorism, and he's right. The attack was designed to create harm and sow fear in the general population of Lebanon for an ideological/military purpose. That's the very definition of terrorism, at least in my home country of Canada.
Examining the tactic from the perspective of the laws of war, it was also a war crime. Any attack against enemy combatants must, without exception, be designed to avoid or at least minimize the harm to non-combatants. No attack may legally take place without analyzing the specific harm the attack could cause to civilians. Obviously it's impossible to make such an analysis when you send thousands of booby-trapped pagers into the general population of Lebanon, even if you believe they're going to be distributed to Hezbollah. The pagers could end up in anyone's hands, not just those of Hezbollah combatants.
Terrorism and war crimes seems to be what Israel is all about these days.
Snowden is utterly wrong. These were Hezbollah's pagers ordered by Hezbollah operatives and meant for Hezbollah terrorists. Your argument based on Snowden is nonsense. There is no evidence of any non-Hezbollah individuals harmed. Hezbollah is a military terrorist operation armed by Iran.
Hezbollah has been attacking Israel since Oct 8, 2023. For no reason other than to support Hamas a terrorist organization. Hezbollah operatives are who held these phones. If anything it was a the safest attack of its kind in the history of armed warfare...specifically directed to Hezbollah.
What you say depends on numbers of actual civilians killed. Do we know? It doesn’t sound indiscriminate at the moment.
That's incorrect. The actual number of civilians killed is irrelevant. The war crime was committed by using an indiscriminate weapon. Under the Geneva Conventions, any weapon employed must be be used in a way that discriminates between combatants and non-combatants. The Israelis had no way to know where the explosive pagers would be or who would have them when the detonated them. That's "indiscriminate" as defined by the Conventions, and hence a war crime. For the same reason most people consider the use of cluster weapons in civilian areas to be a war crime. The bomblets that don't initially explode remain to harm civilians afterwards.
The second war crime committed by the Israelis in this attack concerns proportionality. Prior to mounting it, every attack must be analyzed to see if any harm caused to civilians is proportional to the military advantage to be gained. If you cannot determine whether the attack will be proportionate in that regard, you must discontinue the attack or find another way to mount it. In this attack there was no way for the Israelis to sufficiently analyze whether the harm to civilians was proportionate. Hence it was a war crime.
In brief, REGARDLESS of the number of civilians harmed in an attack, using a weapon indiscriminately is a war crime. It's also a war crime to harm civilians disproportionately to the military advantage gained, again regardless of the actual number of civilians who are harmed.
Reports are that the pagers were purchased by Hezbollah for their own operatives, and not by anyone else. IF that is true, then denoting them is not indiscriminate.
Anybody who had a modified pager turned on got splashed. Loads of civilians in Lebanon use pagers.
Thank you for quoting Snowden. According to these and the goons who support them these people do not have the right to defend/protect themselves or fellow neighbors. IF they do they are "terrorists". But the US and allied thugs and goons can do whatever the f it please murdering, dispossessing, TERRORIZING and genociding millions, half of which are children, Call it "installing democracy" and we are supposed to unquestionably buy that cr*p.
Those are NOT God's people. Unless of course the gOD we are talking about is a demon such as Moloch or Remphen.
Those are demons without any conscience.
Thank you so much again.
My point is that, how do we know this was done indiscriminately? If the Israelis had a way of channeling the pagers to Hezbollah, then it’s not indiscriminate.
You're focusing narrowly on the weapon itself, but it's not the weapon that creates a war crime. In every instance it's *how* the weapon is used that makes an attack lawful or a violation of the Geneva Conventions. For example, a bomb could be dropped from an airplane in a lawful manner, or it could be dropped in a way that does not discriminate between combatants and civilians. In the latter case that's a war crime.
In the case of these pagers, there's no way for the Israelis to predict with any certainty where they would wind up. Presumably they believed the pagers were going to Hezbollah, but from that point there's no way to know who Hezbollah gave them to. They may have been given to combatants and non-combatants alike. That means the attack was indiscriminate. Nor is it possible to determine beforehand what risk the devices would create to innocent third-party civilians when they explode. This again is a war crime because preceding every attack, combatants must analyze the possible harm that could befall non-combatants in order to determine *proportionality.*
Terrorists do not consider proportionality nor do they distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. That's why Edward Snowden referred to this attack as indistinguishable from terrorism.
If there had been significant civilian casualties, you can be sure that Hezbollah would put those videos out. It doesn’t seem that way, so this seems to have pretty successfully hit Hezbollah operatives.
You can argue about the definition a combatant: what about a logistics guy within the organization?
Personally I would call that person a legitimate target.
Very few bombs are capable of discriminating in any way, as we learned often in Iraq and Afghanistan. Laws of war are incredibly messy and imperfect, especially when you’re fighting a guerrilla army.
My own feeling is that I fault the Israelis for not making a real effort to get civilians out of Gaza before the invasion. That might well be a war crime.
However, there’s so much blame to go around on both sides that for me there are no ‘good guys’.
At this time you have no way of assessing the level of civilian casualties across Lebanon, nor of Hezbollah combatants for that matter. What "seems" to be the case to you may be a far cry from the reality on the ground.
That an attack successfully kills an enemy combatant, or some number of them, is IRRELEVANT as to the attack's legality. To avoid being a war crime, the attack must be mounted in a lawful way using weapons that discriminate between combatants and civilians. This attack did not discriminate. It launched lethal means against an unknown number of civilians and combatants alike. That's a war crime.
By a "logistics guy" I assume you mean a civilian one. In that case he is a non-combatant and may not be targeted, anymore than Hezbollah can lawfully target, say, a civilian bus driver in Israel. You might want to give some thought to what you're proposing when you accept attacks against people like that.
On the other hand, if you're talking about a "combatant logistics guy", then of course he's a legitimate target. But that's not the point. You cannot use unlawful means to target enemy combatants. And using indiscriminate methods is unlawful. Chemical and biological weapons are other examples of indiscriminate methods of attacking your enemy.
Or are you saying that Israel may use unlawful methods to kill its enemies, even when it causes mass casualties as this attack did?
Don't misunderstand the term 'discriminate' in this context. Weapons are unthinking; they don't discriminate themselves. Under the laws of war it's the user of the weapon that must use it in a discriminate way. What is meant by discriminate and indiscriminate is spelled out in the Geneva Conventions which are written so that every combatant can understand them. There can be no misunderstanding their meaning.
The laws of war are utterly impartial. It matters not who the good guys are, who the aggrieved party is, or who started the conflict. It's not necessary to make a subjective judgment on the matter. An attack is either mounted lawfully or it's a war crime, regardless of who commits the act.
The ability to explode these pagers is a valuable asset. Using that asset is a one-time option. So you would do it only if the purpose was worth while. Disrupting communications is especially valuable on the eve of a major attack.
Effectively, a spoiling raid
According to the Telegram account of Amir Tsarfati in Israel,
"Israel will be mapping out injuries, hospital admissions, social media posts, electronic communications, news footage, and medical records, linking them all to people who had these pagers today. Forget the injuries and deaths, Israel just created a massive and growing trove of information about both known and previously unknown Hezbollah militants, as well as their supporters, partners, family members, colleagues, workplaces, vehicles, and homes. They just created an incredibly dense and up to date social graph of an entire terrorist network, across Lebanon as well as neighboring countries. It is incredible what they just did...
The Syrian Druze journalist Fitzal Al-Qassem wrote, "What happened today to Hezbollah can be classified as the most fantastic pre-emptive strike in modern history. It can be compared to Israel's pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian Air Force before the 6 day War. Today, Hezbollah has thousands of brand new disabled fighters, and if they enter the war now, its wounded will not even find one free bed in the hospitals in Lebanon because the hospitals are now bursting with injured."
Even worse-Hezbollah has lost its security and military means of communication.
Osint Arab sources report that yesterday an American Air Force aircraft of the type: was spotted off the coast of Lebanon. EC-130H Compass Call. This aircraft is known to be used for electronic warfare.
Panic in Iran's revolutionary guard corps. They are all trying to get rid of their communications systems."
an excellent analysis --thank you
And how many innocent people got killed or injured?
The people running Israel believe in collective responsibility and collective punishment, and for those who said all Arabs are animals and suggested 'nuking' Gaza, there are no innocents.
It reminds me of the nineteenth-century American general who said 'The only good Injun is a dead Injun.'
Unfortunately for innocents in Israel, like many of those killed and abducted on October 7, some leaders on the other side think the same way.
Bullshit, these were just "generic" pagers used by all kinds of people in Lebanon.
All kinds of people in Lebanon use a pager provided by Hezbollah from the 5,000 pager shipment these came from?
Almost nobody uses $200 pagers when cell phones are available for that price, especially in Third World countries that import from China. Japan's last pager service shut down in 2019.
""Third World countries that import from China""?!?!?! and the US (FiRST WORLD) doesn't do that?!?!? The majority of the cr*p we use IS CHINESE!!! OMG, you people are so freaking stupid or evil. Perhaps both.
US doesn't import Xiamoi or Huawhei cheap cell phones.
This has nothing to do with Chinese sneakers being imported into the US ... although Mossad might surprise again
Stupid is as stupid does
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates
Those pagers weren't provided by Hezbollah, they were provided by (Mossad) and bought by people in Lebanon, among whom members of Hezbollah.
I agree that $150 is more than my smartphone, so you use a pager if your work somehow requires it: medical, governmental types.
Lol) The batteries didn't explode. The devices were booby-trapped even before they entered Lebanon. It will be easy to establish who did it, there are few options. Either directly at the manufacturer's factory - they say it is located in Taiwan, or in the warehouse of a wholesale supplier. The manufacturer of these pagers is also called. But I will not write yet - the information is not official.
I have reviewed some new videos. There is definitely an explosion when the pager received a message. I agree that it would not be "normal" for a lithium battery to explode that way. Some years ago a Hamas or PLO terrorist was killed by an exploding cellphone. That was because his cellphone was booby trapped. This also could be the case, but it suggests a huge and highly coordinated operation. We may learn more in future.
If the phones had explosives in them, why would they put such a tiny amount that mostly caused injuries? Even a small amount of explosive would have been enough to kill someone holding it by their face.
Maybe the intent wasn’t to kill, but to maim and track
Those pagers are small, not a lot of room. I'm sure they've maximized the amount of explosives that they put in.
In the radios, walkie-talkies, etc. there was more room, so bigger explosions, more deaths.
Really? STFU
https://x.com/SkyNewsArabia_B/status/1836106564001780006
سكاي نيوز عربية-عاجل
@SkyNewsArabia_B
مصادر خاصة لسكاي نيوز عربية: الموساد قام بوضع كمية من مادة PETN شديدة الانفجار على بطارية الأجهزة وتم تفجيرها عبر رفع درجة حرارة البطارية
Exclusive sources for Sky News Arabia: Mossad placed a quantity of highly explosive PETN on the devices’ battery and detonated it by raising the battery’s temperature
I updated my report to include this possibility. Right now we don't really have confirmation, just suspicion.
Yes, in this part of the world, I would certainly not take any press reports as gospel.
There's no reason for an ordinary citizen to use a pager instead of a much more versatile cell phone, unless they needed to receive encrypted texts from Hezbollah.
What an extraordinary coup for Israel!
Wake up you idiot
Page me ...
You’re not only an idiot, but also sick; that’s a bad combination but hey, it’s you. Now get lost.
"Now get lost"
Or what, you'll show up at my doorstep with a tire iron?
Dimwitted wannabee jihadist.
https://iwi.net/products/
The New York Times:
“The Israeli government did not tamper with the Hezbollah phones that exploded, defense and intelligence officials say. It manufactured them as part of an elaborate ruse.”
“Israel had put into motion a plan to establish a shell company that would pose as an international pager producer.
“By all appearances, B.A.C. Consulting was a Hungary-based company that was under contract to produce the devices on behalf of a Taiwanese company, Gold Apollo. In fact, it was part of an Israeli front, according to three intelligence officers briefed on the operation. They said at least two other shell companies were created as well to mask the real identities of the people creating the pagers: Israeli intelligence officers.”
The model of the pagers that exploded in Lebanon is believed to be the Gold Apollo AR-924 from Apollo Electronic Paging Company, a company based in Taiwan. But the taiwanese company denied this Wednesday, September 18, it had manufactured the pagers
"These are not our products... They are not our products from start to finish," company director Hsu Ching-kuang told reporters in Taipei.
He was reacting to reports published by the New York Times daily claiming that the pagers were ordered from Gold Apollo, citing American officials and other nationalities speaking on condition of anonymity.
In comments reported by the Reuters news agency, Gold Apollo said the beepers were not manufactured by it but by a company called BAC, which has a license to use its brand.
"The product was not ours. It just had our brand on it," Hsu Ching-Kuang said.
In a statement, the Taiwanese company said the AR-924 model was produced and sold by BAC. “We are only licensing the brand and are not involved in the design or manufacturing of this product,” the company said.
Hsu Ching-Kuang added that he did not know how the beepers could have been tricked into detonating. The Gold Apollo company said it was also a victim of the situation: “We may not be a big company, but we are a responsible company,” said Hsu Ching-Kuang.
it seems the pagers were manufactured in Hungary
Why would an electronics company in Taiwan badge products made - with higher costs and less production infrastructure - in Europe?
It's usually the other way round.
I find it highly unlikely that the pagers were hacked in order to make their batteries explode. Typically lithium batteries catch fire rather than explode. There are no reports of multiple fires, only reports of explosions making the battery theory improbable.
I suspect the pagers were made with explosives implanted in them, and then substituted for the harmless ones for distribution to Hezbollah. Images of the damage caused would also indicate dedicated explosives. That’s just a theory mind you, no proof either way as yet.
there is no hard proof yet --maybe there won't be any, we have to wait and see
There will be hard proof, because some didn't explode, didn't have a battery, or were somehow shielded from the code transmission. These will be analysed.
Another factor that suggests explosives were secretly planted in the pagers is that clearly the Israelis weren't simply trying to disable Hezbollah's communication network. After all, if they could hack the pagers they could've disabled the network electronically at any time. Instead, they somehow rigged the pagers to explode. The intent obviously was harm whoever was carrying the device, not merely to disable the network.
Yes, but what you are totally ignoring is that most of these devices were simply being used by civilians. This is yet another appalling act by “Israel” - they just really don’t care who or how many they kill.
For goodness sake America, Britain, France etc, stop these vile Zionists
That is not the case and no one is reporting that at all. You are wrong.
You seriously think there were almost 3000 ‘targets’?
"most of these devices were simply being used by civilians"
How many civilians use an encrypted pager instead of a cell phone? Can't find a single one around my neighborhood. Bet you can't either.
Seems like a generic attack on all susceptible devices .
Brilliant! It also shows our own vulnerability.
Why would a pager be able to explode, having batteries too small to accomplish such?
As explained in this post, they were not regular pagers but much larger two way communication pagers with a correspondingly larger battery. The ones in use on the targeted network had lithium batteries.
What normally happens is that as lithium batteries overheat, they build up internal gas pressures, the case cracks open releasing an intense flame that can't be put out under normal circumstances. They don't explode like a hand grenade but more like a balloon popping if the balloon was filled with burning gasoline. The heat and flames are intense so that even if the actual fire area is small, it will ignite anything it is in contact with. People remember the event as the object exploding even though that isn't quite accurate. If it happens to you, the distinction seems unimportant.
The video shows one actually exploding in a fruit market.
Two-way radios are two way, pagers are not.
Two way pagers are a thing. They don't look like what most people think a radio would look like. They don't function in ways that most people expect a radio to do. They use a different platform than those that most people associate with radios. Your typical multiband radio will not pick up the communication between two way pagers. People don't use them in any way near the same fashion as their two way radios. Hence they are called two way pagers.
My understanding is that most current systems use the F.M. radio band at some point in their operation. At least some of them use g.p.s. for the positioning apparently required for some such systems to operate.
People that use them call them two way pagers. People that market them call them two way pagers. The built out systems are more robust than cell phone technology and thus are favored by some institutions. Apparently Hezbollah is into it as well (who knew, since it requires a considerable operation and investment to work over a widespread area).
However, if you want to call them two way radios that's fine by me. It's just that the people that use them will think you are talking about something else. But I do wonder if it is at all possible to hack into a two way radio communication system in such a way as to make the devices start exploding simultaneously. My personal belief is that there is some characteristic of two way pager systems that makes that possible where it is not on a two way radio system.
Why do I get the impression that you have never had an FCC license or repaired radio equipment like I did, professionally, for 1.5 years when not doing so as an amateur radio operator for several years?
The pagers in question had small bombs in them that were detonated by remote control. They were used to hide and trigger the bombs, not being such.
I agree, based on watching the videos, that the devices most likely did not explode from overheating lithium batteries.
If you want to convince the tens of thousands of purveyors and purchasers of two way pagers that they are not such and are simply two way radios, you should direct your comments to them. I have never and will never use one so I will just follow established terminology simply to avoid confusion.
I wonder how many two way radio systems you worked on had a text messaging format plus voice, encryption and employed gps as part of their function. All on a network with thousands of users spread over hundreds of miles. There is a term for such systems that people who use them apply to the technology. Two way pager.
According to alternative media, the pagers were made in Hungary to order for the Israeli government, and had small charges of PETN next to their batteries. The company in Hungary made them for a major maker of them in Taiwan and they were branded in the name of the Taiwanese seller. Israel has admitted that they committed this act of terrorism.
This is definitely not a two-way pager, it's a very simple device, you can look up the manual for it.
What is not a two way pager and contains only triple AAA batteries? A quick search shows two way pagers ranging from 20 dollars to four hundred dollars in price. A similar search for two way pager batteries show prices ranging from ten dollars to 700 dollars for the polymer lithium batteries. That is just looking at the first page search results. Not doubt there are more robust and expensive systems are available.
It's powered by a single generic AAA battery.
Many commenting here and elsewhere don't seem to understand that Hezbollah is a political party which dominates the Lebanese government as well as having an armed wing which dominates Lebanon's defense.
They also dominate civil society in Shia areas, so a general 'attack on Hezbollah members' is a very wide-spectrum escalation.
true but it was Hezbollah that has been attacking Israel, and Israel is responding. The fact that Hezbollah has subverted Lebanon is well known.
I often ask, in relation to Ukraine and Israel, whose leaders are constantly trying to drag America into a bigger war:
What do their populations actually want, are they also hell-bent on ultimately suicidal escalation?
Here, for example, how does this scatter-gun attack or provocation fit into any rational endgame?
My wife said: For more and more Israelis, the endgame seems something like a second Masada.
And we know that for rather a lot of Americans, the endgame is Armageddon and The Rapture.
There was an article published in August on this platform named Samson option for Ukraine, quote: "In its military doctrine Israel contains a strategy called Samson Option. It is named after the biblical figure Samson, who destroyed himself along with his enemies. In the context of Israeli defense policy, the Samson Option suggests that Israel might use nuclear weapons as a last resort if the nation faces an existential threat, ensuring mutual destruction or severe retaliation against its adversaries.
As the last 2.5 years have shown, Ukraine needs to have its own Samson Option with the nuclear deterrence it entails. As the Western allies have proved to be too neurotic and unreliable, this is its only long-term security guarantee..." End of quote.
In such a case a nuclear war would be assured.