In Ying Ma’s latest podcast we discuss the danger of war spilling into Europe and the urgent need for the U.S. to negotiate peace with Russia. National Insecurity is Ying Ma’s podcast in which I participated. Doug Bandow is from the Cato Institute.
The time to negotiate was when the Russians withdrew from Kherson. They offered us an off-ramp and we didn't take it. Now there is no off-ramp. We don't have options with foreseeable outcomes anymore. Pushing Kiev into peace negotiation could easily end more disastrously than staying on the current disastrous course.
So the West has the right to arm Ukraine (its cat's paw) with longer range weapons? Russia's asymmetric responses could include "providing" Onyx and Iskanders to NK (a tiger's paw if you will). 800 km radius (P-800 Onyx) and another 2,500 km (Iskander with cruise missiles)--with the center somewhere in North Korea and what you get is the full coverage of the Yellow Sea and the Sea of Japan and well into the South China Sea. With that North Korea begins to cover the whole theater of operation of the US Navy (its bases in Japan included) and we all understand what it all means. See map below for visual impact, (And what if Iran is included on the list...or Venezuela?) Russian hope/belief (till 2022) that you still can reason with the West has been shattered; how can anyone reason with a bunch of incompetent morons hepped up on ideology and goofballs?
I appreciate she was trying to steelman the US argument against Russia but you can't make the argument that they violated the post WW2 order with a straight face. We've invaded or attacked dozens of countries that presented a smaller national security threat than what Russia faced in Ukraine. In fact many of the victims presented in fact no security threat whatsoever. We apparently did Libya just so Hillary could burnish her credentials. We did Syria as a favor to Israel (also one of the main drivers of Iraq). We invaded Vietnam & when we left our national security was only diminished by the fact we failed in front of the world. We did Yugoslavia/Serbia & created Kosovo which is highly illegal. We've ratified the illegal Israel annexation of the Golan Heights. I don't understand how someone as knowledgeable could think that was an argument worthy of entertaining. Great Show. Enjoyed it a lot. As you said it's not for nothing that the majority of the world is ignoring America's protestations that Russia is acting illegally. It's practically standard operating procedure for us & the world understands that the USA specifically would have invaded it's next door neighbors if it was confronted with just a fraction of what eventually set Russia off. Which is why, btw, no Mexican or Canadian govt would even let it enter their minds to take a foreign policy position that is adversarial to us
I might not agree with all of it but this is an extraordinary podcast by all three participants.
So thank you very much! Everyone should listen to it.
p.s. It is interesting to witness that podcaster Ying Ma´s knowledge on Iraq is so faulty.
book / fiction films on this topic:
For those who don´t know it, Bob Drogin from the L.A. Times did a good job reporting about the German intelligence source "Curveball" in "Curveball: Spies, Lies, and the Con Man Who Caused a War" (2007).
"Curveball" was the Iraqi pseudo-informant to German BND, Rafid Ahmed Alwan, who made up everything that SoS Powell would later present in the UN-SC in that moment of "infamy". (That drawing of trucks with moveable bio-labs was based on a drawing provided by Alwan who was an impostor.)
Also see what Scooter Libby did when pressuring CIA analysts in order to get "useable" intelligence for going to war, which then meant, fabrications. Some of those CIA employees went through hell I believe.
There was a good but unproduced film script about this Libby episode by British screenwriter Steven Knight, titled "Curveball".
Another angle was the Niger yellowcake story published by US diplomat Joseph Wilson in the NYT and the affair over his wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame.
Decent film about this is "Fair Game" (2010) by Doug Liman, with Naomi Watts/Sean Penn.
A fictional approach was "Nothing but the Truth", by Rod Lurie, with Kate Beckinsale/Vera Farmiga inspired by NYT´s Judith Millers´ story, who had reported about Plame via Scooter Libby and went to prison for 85 days. The report by Miller betrayed Plame´s true identity to her entire private environment.
Around 2003 Miller in real life had participated in the media´s war mongering that had accompanied the US invasion. So she was guilty in this war crime like countless other media bigwigs.
A slightly clumsy satire on the war looking at Dick Cheney´s perspective was "Vice".
And there is a mediocre, also satire, from Germany on Curveball, titled, well "Curveball":
Who even are these people? Why would I trust what Ying Ma or Doug Bandow says? Prefer to listen to folks with operational experience rather than these useless talking heads…
That's the problem with people like you. It's all silly talk. If it was about justice and what's right you would have asked what the people of Donbass want. But nobody in the West ever cared. Since 2014 they simply don't belong to Ukraine anymore.
But Mainstream media, Western politicians and people like you never cared about Ukraine in the first place.
The time to negotiate was when the Russians withdrew from Kherson. They offered us an off-ramp and we didn't take it. Now there is no off-ramp. We don't have options with foreseeable outcomes anymore. Pushing Kiev into peace negotiation could easily end more disastrously than staying on the current disastrous course.
Great article Stephen! I've shared the link.
A Skeptic War Reports
https://askeptic.substack.com/
Thank you!
Next Putin should do a “Grand Tour” of the South American continent.
You want to see US Boomer Command REALLY soil their Depends? That’s how you do it!
So the West has the right to arm Ukraine (its cat's paw) with longer range weapons? Russia's asymmetric responses could include "providing" Onyx and Iskanders to NK (a tiger's paw if you will). 800 km radius (P-800 Onyx) and another 2,500 km (Iskander with cruise missiles)--with the center somewhere in North Korea and what you get is the full coverage of the Yellow Sea and the Sea of Japan and well into the South China Sea. With that North Korea begins to cover the whole theater of operation of the US Navy (its bases in Japan included) and we all understand what it all means. See map below for visual impact, (And what if Iran is included on the list...or Venezuela?) Russian hope/belief (till 2022) that you still can reason with the West has been shattered; how can anyone reason with a bunch of incompetent morons hepped up on ideology and goofballs?
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaJFrFPX82e56Zk2YruoWxphlMgVAd1LLWN_wlX6J__o48wBZFFbnqTP90ShQJnn4TzuLbRB5UproT_kxbyRCS4rqQ12-_fjTcTa2675TBUHZI83pzikJKbg3kIXBkzbA6bdtZdkDviGAiZOhy6SVpKy_rYpcoqU3QFx6YraDjJGZi2JKs5CRmV-KMbk8/w636-h443/N.Korea.jpg
I appreciate she was trying to steelman the US argument against Russia but you can't make the argument that they violated the post WW2 order with a straight face. We've invaded or attacked dozens of countries that presented a smaller national security threat than what Russia faced in Ukraine. In fact many of the victims presented in fact no security threat whatsoever. We apparently did Libya just so Hillary could burnish her credentials. We did Syria as a favor to Israel (also one of the main drivers of Iraq). We invaded Vietnam & when we left our national security was only diminished by the fact we failed in front of the world. We did Yugoslavia/Serbia & created Kosovo which is highly illegal. We've ratified the illegal Israel annexation of the Golan Heights. I don't understand how someone as knowledgeable could think that was an argument worthy of entertaining. Great Show. Enjoyed it a lot. As you said it's not for nothing that the majority of the world is ignoring America's protestations that Russia is acting illegally. It's practically standard operating procedure for us & the world understands that the USA specifically would have invaded it's next door neighbors if it was confronted with just a fraction of what eventually set Russia off. Which is why, btw, no Mexican or Canadian govt would even let it enter their minds to take a foreign policy position that is adversarial to us
I might not agree with all of it but this is an extraordinary podcast by all three participants.
So thank you very much! Everyone should listen to it.
p.s. It is interesting to witness that podcaster Ying Ma´s knowledge on Iraq is so faulty.
book / fiction films on this topic:
For those who don´t know it, Bob Drogin from the L.A. Times did a good job reporting about the German intelligence source "Curveball" in "Curveball: Spies, Lies, and the Con Man Who Caused a War" (2007).
"Curveball" was the Iraqi pseudo-informant to German BND, Rafid Ahmed Alwan, who made up everything that SoS Powell would later present in the UN-SC in that moment of "infamy". (That drawing of trucks with moveable bio-labs was based on a drawing provided by Alwan who was an impostor.)
Also see what Scooter Libby did when pressuring CIA analysts in order to get "useable" intelligence for going to war, which then meant, fabrications. Some of those CIA employees went through hell I believe.
There was a good but unproduced film script about this Libby episode by British screenwriter Steven Knight, titled "Curveball".
Another angle was the Niger yellowcake story published by US diplomat Joseph Wilson in the NYT and the affair over his wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame.
Decent film about this is "Fair Game" (2010) by Doug Liman, with Naomi Watts/Sean Penn.
A fictional approach was "Nothing but the Truth", by Rod Lurie, with Kate Beckinsale/Vera Farmiga inspired by NYT´s Judith Millers´ story, who had reported about Plame via Scooter Libby and went to prison for 85 days. The report by Miller betrayed Plame´s true identity to her entire private environment.
Around 2003 Miller in real life had participated in the media´s war mongering that had accompanied the US invasion. So she was guilty in this war crime like countless other media bigwigs.
A slightly clumsy satire on the war looking at Dick Cheney´s perspective was "Vice".
And there is a mediocre, also satire, from Germany on Curveball, titled, well "Curveball":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(film)
Who even are these people? Why would I trust what Ying Ma or Doug Bandow says? Prefer to listen to folks with operational experience rather than these useless talking heads…
since you misrepresent what people say you ought to pay attention to your own credibility
What part of Ukraine would you like to give away? Rewarding Putin in any manner is just a recipe for more war.
That's the problem with people like you. It's all silly talk. If it was about justice and what's right you would have asked what the people of Donbass want. But nobody in the West ever cared. Since 2014 they simply don't belong to Ukraine anymore.
But Mainstream media, Western politicians and people like you never cared about Ukraine in the first place.
It ain't yours to give