The Hamas terrorist attacks in Israel are truly horrible and unprecedented. The attacks are ongoing. It will take days, even weeks to clean all of the terrorists out. No one yet knows the extent of casualties, because Israeli censorship is in place. Early reports put the number at 22 killed: it is probably at least three or four times that number.
I ask, why would a people who had their land stolen (have you ever been to ashelon?) been captive in a ghetto for 75 years, are daily murdered by settlers, have no hope for liberation, see themselves choked into submission, suddenly commit suicide by attacking those who have oppressed them for generations and are tightening the oppression? Seems suicide is the only way out.
Where did I say it is justified? Show me. It's not nice attributing that statement to me. It happens all the time; people are oppressed and they react angrily against oppression. That is their psychology. It is not unique and has nothing to do with me and much to do with you. You demonstrate the knee jerk reaction of people who defend the slaughter of the Palestinians -- men, women, chuldren, handicapped, old, sick, senile -- some would use the word genocide, by immediately going to an extreme accusation because something is said that makes people think about the reality of the situation. Do you know the true stories of how the Zionists cleansed the land by telling soldiers that when they entered a Palestinian village to take 6 members of the village and shoot them so the others will flee. From Gaza, these Palestinians can see what is now called Ashkelon, the homes where their relatives were brutally murdered by Israeli soldiers and others forced to flee from contentment into impoverished lives that are purposely kept desperate by Israel's policies. The people in that area, up to Ashod, did not even take up arms in the struggle, and the area in which they lived was awarded to the Palestinians in the UN Proclamation. Nevertheless, Israel illegally seized Ashod and Ashkelon. How would you like to live under Israeli oppression, the must brutal oppression one can imagine? You would probably go nuts.
Who cares what you think? What is your role in a matter between Stephen and me? Can't you read? Stephen's remark, punctuated by "take a hike," was unnecessary, did not characterize what I said, and was offensive. Besides, Stephen can speak for himself and not be made helpless, as you are doing. I'm sure he does not need you to defend him. Your comment is evidently done to inflame, to turn a correction into boisterious argument. This is between Stephen and me and we do not need a vicious person turn a serious discussion of hostilities between the Palestinians and Israelis into a war between ourselves. Disgusting comment!
“ Who cares what you think? … Stephen's remark, punctuated by "take a hike," was unnecessary, did not characterize what I said, and was offensive.”
Correct, who cares what you think? Your Marxists propaganda was unnecessary, and did not characterize what Stephen said.
As few care about what your tired Marxists thoughts are here, as on your own substack, which, on average, gathers zero likes and, if you are lucky, a one comment.
You sound like a polished communist mouthpiece Pravda. You are correct in one sense, poor Palestinian people are oppressed, but by whom?
While they are living, in your words, in oppression, their “leaders” into the oppression enjoy luxury of castles, expensive cars, and billion dollars private bank accounts all courtesy of the Western taxpayers. While, from time-to-time, leaders of Arab/Muslim countries, who know the REALITY, used to throw conferences of support, committing billions of dollars to the cause, only pennies actually made to both people of “Palestine,” and their luxurious leaders.
Then the question becomes, who are the oppressed people of Palestine and their “leaders?”
I am sure you know the answer as well as I do, so why waste time, comrade Dah Lieber-Man?
Look forward to another Pile-higher-(and)Deeper commie Propaganda.
Trying to be objective when it's primal is beating your head against the wall.
Yes, life is the anarchies of desire, versus the tyrannies of judgement and when we get wrapped up in the tribal branding, there is no thinking outside the box.
Here is my effort to try thinking outside the box;
This comment is meant for Dan Lieberman. You are just another self-hating Jew. The PA was granted Gaza some years ago, complete with a means of production (greenhouses, factories, etc.). They destroyed anything that was originally built by the hated Israelis (read: Jews), then voted in Hamas. Sorry, they now deserve whatever they get.
Not even close, it's in the hundred's if not far more, villages have been captured in the NW, Gaza fence being torn down, attacks from sea on beaches, videos of many female soldiers dead or captured , hundreds captured & surrendered, bodies being mutilated,5000+ rockets fired at south & north west Israel & Iron dome overwhelmed, Israeli/Gaza/Egypt border checkpoint captured with all military vehicles captured by men in Israeli uniforms, Merkava tanks getting droned, and captured... Israel is mobilizing slowly, and are bombing Gaza non stop. This is all verified on video.
The press is hardly censored. The seething anger against the Netanyahu administration and its appeasement to the ultra Orthodox is all there in the open for all to read.
And to tether paranoia inside the White House over Iranian spies and getting “comfortable” with your enemies is, well, you’re capable of a better coda to an article of incomplete information..
Fine-Sez you. OK, stick with Yediot Achranot instead.
Let me reframe my comment:
Censorship exists in varying degrees in any government. Israel has some. Relative to the internal criticism being leveled at the government now, AND relative to every other country in the ME, their censorship of the media is mild. I live in Singapore. I should know..
Read what you want, Before you call Stephen’s opinion “nonsense,” people on the ground report that media admits being heavily censored by the government even inside for the Israelis. So that’s that.
“ I live in Singapore. I should know.”
Is an argument from authority a fallacy in Singapore as it is everywhere else?
Thank you Stephen for the prompt write up on this evolving situation. Can you also elaborate on your claim that Iranian operatives are working within the Biden admin?
As I’m just waking up to the news I’m watching the horrible but remarkable video evidence of the attacks. Notably the militants from Hamas seemed to have adapted some of the drone warfare techniques we’ve seen used daily in Ukraine. Is it the case that Israel is completely on the backfoot in this attack?
I would imagine that Israel has some EW capabilities to deploy, especially after what we’ve seen in Ukraine.
I don't know enough yet, but it seems if the reports of 5,000 rockets are true, then air defenses would be overwhelmed. We need to learn more before determining what happened.
I know it hasn't even been 24 hours and normally you should wait for at least 48 hours to make a reasonable judgement of an event, but we already know that Netanyahu has offered a unity government after declaring a state of war. Interesting, isn't it?
You are not the only one who talks about Israel's intelligence failure. Are we sure about it?
Could it be that they actually knew it very well, but let it happen on purpose to re-unite a country that was close to the brink of collapsing?
I would like to remind that even the Israeli military aviation went on strike earlier this year against Benjamin Netanyahu's constitutional reform!
Also many people, even so-called "journalists" wonder why this "surprise attack" from Hamas, that apparently has no name according to Western MSM (unlike the Israeli one), has happened now.
Well... let me tell you why.
Just a few days ago Israeli settlers stormed Al-Aqsa Mosque complex, which Muslims regard the site as the third holiest in Islam, after Mecca and Medina, but of course this was not reported by western MSM - they never report any illegal action by Israel. That was a well-known red line for the Palestinian and Hamas in particular. Israel knew it very well and they decided to cross it. And now you tell me that this attack from Hamas was unexpected? BS!
Now, guess what is the name of the operation launched by Hamas?
If it was "a long planned operation", then surely the Mossad must have had plenty of time to pick up signals, since they even have double-agents in Hamas... or were they really sleeping?
Thank you, Stephen. After I read your post, I checked out some of the news on twitter and, you are right, there's not much. Can't help but wonder if some of the funding, weapons and planning for these attacks came from Iran.
Sorry, but you're dancing around. The exposure of the American and Israeli LEFT's utter degeneracy here might be the best thing that's happened to both nations in a long time. They can no longer pretend to be anything other than immoral haters, and even better, they can't help exposing themselves as exactly that. Remember that when you hear the call for a "proportional" response once again--because if you don't think it's coming from the people who see "moral equivalence" between a civilized nation and rank, bloodthirsty savages, think again.
Liberate Palestine from khazarian apartheid occupation.
Patriot fiasco in 404, sorry Israel 2.0
Iron dome fiasco in Israel 1.0 today..so many hundreds of billions spent (taxpayers) on overpriced and low level weapons or AD. The future is about drone, and this is a catatrophic news for Israel.
A French philosopher I studied with long ago talked about 'a logic of war'.
For Islamists, and the leaders of Hamas in particular, conflict often seems a good idea to strengthen their position (against the PA in particular - they claim the current mass attack was a response to injustice in the West Bank, where Palestinians are represented by those rival leaders - Lawrence of Arabia long ago gave up trying to get Arabs to agree on anything).
Deeper down, culturally, they belong to a tradition where Muslim identity is rooted in conflict, jihad.
At the same time, if you read the Bible, you understand that Jewish identity is also rooted in conflict, or trouble with the neighbours.
I heard a West Bank settler interviewed some time ago who said: 'Without conflict, we lose our identity, forget who we are.'
This mirror of identity through conflict on both sides seems a major problem that's been running for a few thousand years, and probably can't be fixed in a week or month or year or decade, or maybe century...
You write, Stephen, that 'Israel never wanted to send in ground forces and clean out the enemy.'
But what exactly would 'cleaning out the enemy' mean in Gaza, home of the biblical Philistine enemy thousands of years ago?
It would have to mean a repressive military reoccupation, because the roots of enmity are not just Hamas, but thousands of years deeper.
Israel chose to end military occupation of Gaza in the very month that, because of higher birthrates, Palestinians in all land controlled by Israel would become a majority of the population.
And Israel's Western allies, along with the UN, would have had a problem with minority control of a 'land', with no prospect of universal suffrage of the inhabitants.
Like Ukraine with its own deep historical ethnic and cultural tensions, a 'solution' is unlikely to appear in the shorter term.
Western and Eastern Ukrainians (Poland and Russia) came to an understanding in 1667, but trouble has been rumbling on for a while.
Peace between the descendants of Abraham's sons Isaac and Ishmael might take a lot longer.
To the Ancients, monotheism equated with monoculture. One people, one rule, one god.
Democracy and republicanism originated in pantheistic cultures. The family as godhead.
The origin of Greek religion was fertility rites. The young god, born in the spring, of the old sky god and the earth mother. Though by the time of the Olympians, tradition prevailed over renewal, so Zeus didn't give way to Dionysus. Which provided fertile ground for Christianity, as the story of Jesus, crucified and risen in the spring, to take root.
Though by the time Rome adopted it as state religion, it too had started to calcify. So what Rome really wanted was the one god, to validate the Empire rising from the ashes of the Republic. The Big Guy Rules. The basis of the Trinity was obscured.
Logically a spiritual absolute would be the essence of sentience, from which we rise, not an ideal of wisdom and judgement, from which we fell. More the light shining through the film, than the images on it.
The problem is that ideals are not absolutes. Truth, beauty, platonic forms are ideals. Christ is an ideal.
The absolute, on the other hand, has to divisions, distinctions, alternatives, etc. No forms, ideal or otherwise.
So ideals are a very powerful concept. The counterpoint of attraction, the eye of the storm, the grain of sand at the center of the pearl. When we assume the ideal at the center of our particular creed is universal and beyond question and all others are false, the effect is war of all against all. Yet that's the assumption around which Western culture is based.
The reality is nodes and networks, organisms and ecosystems. Synchronization and harmonization. One is the node, oneness is the network.
“ Palestinian fighters are therefore not terrorists, they are freedom fighters.”
Curious, we’re the same Palestinians freedom fighters during the Black September, which lead them out of Jordan into the Lebanon? … and later out of the Lebanon into the Kuwait? … and later out of Kuwait to the Tunisia? … where delusional Israelis found them and brought to Israel to continue their “freedom” fighting there?
I ask, why would a people who had their land stolen (have you ever been to ashelon?) been captive in a ghetto for 75 years, are daily murdered by settlers, have no hope for liberation, see themselves choked into submission, suddenly commit suicide by attacking those who have oppressed them for generations and are tightening the oppression? Seems suicide is the only way out.
Dear Dan
You think that justifies murdering women and children and kidnapping people. Take a hike.
Where did I say it is justified? Show me. It's not nice attributing that statement to me. It happens all the time; people are oppressed and they react angrily against oppression. That is their psychology. It is not unique and has nothing to do with me and much to do with you. You demonstrate the knee jerk reaction of people who defend the slaughter of the Palestinians -- men, women, chuldren, handicapped, old, sick, senile -- some would use the word genocide, by immediately going to an extreme accusation because something is said that makes people think about the reality of the situation. Do you know the true stories of how the Zionists cleansed the land by telling soldiers that when they entered a Palestinian village to take 6 members of the village and shoot them so the others will flee. From Gaza, these Palestinians can see what is now called Ashkelon, the homes where their relatives were brutally murdered by Israeli soldiers and others forced to flee from contentment into impoverished lives that are purposely kept desperate by Israel's policies. The people in that area, up to Ashod, did not even take up arms in the struggle, and the area in which they lived was awarded to the Palestinians in the UN Proclamation. Nevertheless, Israel illegally seized Ashod and Ashkelon. How would you like to live under Israeli oppression, the must brutal oppression one can imagine? You would probably go nuts.
I kinda think ‘take a hike’ was rather innocuous-your logghoreic reaction is knee-jerk..
Who cares what you think? What is your role in a matter between Stephen and me? Can't you read? Stephen's remark, punctuated by "take a hike," was unnecessary, did not characterize what I said, and was offensive. Besides, Stephen can speak for himself and not be made helpless, as you are doing. I'm sure he does not need you to defend him. Your comment is evidently done to inflame, to turn a correction into boisterious argument. This is between Stephen and me and we do not need a vicious person turn a serious discussion of hostilities between the Palestinians and Israelis into a war between ourselves. Disgusting comment!
“ Who cares what you think? … Stephen's remark, punctuated by "take a hike," was unnecessary, did not characterize what I said, and was offensive.”
Correct, who cares what you think? Your Marxists propaganda was unnecessary, and did not characterize what Stephen said.
As few care about what your tired Marxists thoughts are here, as on your own substack, which, on average, gathers zero likes and, if you are lucky, a one comment.
You sound like a polished communist mouthpiece Pravda. You are correct in one sense, poor Palestinian people are oppressed, but by whom?
While they are living, in your words, in oppression, their “leaders” into the oppression enjoy luxury of castles, expensive cars, and billion dollars private bank accounts all courtesy of the Western taxpayers. While, from time-to-time, leaders of Arab/Muslim countries, who know the REALITY, used to throw conferences of support, committing billions of dollars to the cause, only pennies actually made to both people of “Palestine,” and their luxurious leaders.
Then the question becomes, who are the oppressed people of Palestine and their “leaders?”
I am sure you know the answer as well as I do, so why waste time, comrade Dah Lieber-Man?
Look forward to another Pile-higher-(and)Deeper commie Propaganda.
In Marxists Arms, Yours truly,
Freedom Lover
Trying to be objective when it's primal is beating your head against the wall.
Yes, life is the anarchies of desire, versus the tyrannies of judgement and when we get wrapped up in the tribal branding, there is no thinking outside the box.
Here is my effort to try thinking outside the box;
https://johnmerryman.substack.com/p/why-culture-is-not-reality
This comment is meant for Dan Lieberman. You are just another self-hating Jew. The PA was granted Gaza some years ago, complete with a means of production (greenhouses, factories, etc.). They destroyed anything that was originally built by the hated Israelis (read: Jews), then voted in Hamas. Sorry, they now deserve whatever they get.
Push these Hamas bastards into the sea...
Not even close, it's in the hundred's if not far more, villages have been captured in the NW, Gaza fence being torn down, attacks from sea on beaches, videos of many female soldiers dead or captured , hundreds captured & surrendered, bodies being mutilated,5000+ rockets fired at south & north west Israel & Iron dome overwhelmed, Israeli/Gaza/Egypt border checkpoint captured with all military vehicles captured by men in Israeli uniforms, Merkava tanks getting droned, and captured... Israel is mobilizing slowly, and are bombing Gaza non stop. This is all verified on video.
It's brutal.
I am hearing from colleagues in Israel. But there is heavy censorship.
Nonsense.
Read Haaretz or Times of Israel or JPost.
The press is hardly censored. The seething anger against the Netanyahu administration and its appeasement to the ultra Orthodox is all there in the open for all to read.
And to tether paranoia inside the White House over Iranian spies and getting “comfortable” with your enemies is, well, you’re capable of a better coda to an article of incomplete information..
Haaretz is a far left newspaper and often irresponsible. There is still very strong censorship in Israel.
Fine-Sez you. OK, stick with Yediot Achranot instead.
Let me reframe my comment:
Censorship exists in varying degrees in any government. Israel has some. Relative to the internal criticism being leveled at the government now, AND relative to every other country in the ME, their censorship of the media is mild. I live in Singapore. I should know..
Read what you want, Before you call Stephen’s opinion “nonsense,” people on the ground report that media admits being heavily censored by the government even inside for the Israelis. So that’s that.
“ I live in Singapore. I should know.”
Is an argument from authority a fallacy in Singapore as it is everywhere else?
Chacun a son gout indeed..
Thank you Stephen for the prompt write up on this evolving situation. Can you also elaborate on your claim that Iranian operatives are working within the Biden admin?
Here is one reference
https://freebeacon.com/national-security/iranian-spies-have-infiltrated-the-american-government-lawmakers-warn/
Thank you Stephen.
As I’m just waking up to the news I’m watching the horrible but remarkable video evidence of the attacks. Notably the militants from Hamas seemed to have adapted some of the drone warfare techniques we’ve seen used daily in Ukraine. Is it the case that Israel is completely on the backfoot in this attack?
I would imagine that Israel has some EW capabilities to deploy, especially after what we’ve seen in Ukraine.
I don't know enough yet, but it seems if the reports of 5,000 rockets are true, then air defenses would be overwhelmed. We need to learn more before determining what happened.
Appreciate your responses. I’m looking forward to your analyses.
Of course.. Free Beacon as a source of reliable information, of course..🙄
I know it hasn't even been 24 hours and normally you should wait for at least 48 hours to make a reasonable judgement of an event, but we already know that Netanyahu has offered a unity government after declaring a state of war. Interesting, isn't it?
You are not the only one who talks about Israel's intelligence failure. Are we sure about it?
Could it be that they actually knew it very well, but let it happen on purpose to re-unite a country that was close to the brink of collapsing?
I would like to remind that even the Israeli military aviation went on strike earlier this year against Benjamin Netanyahu's constitutional reform!
Also many people, even so-called "journalists" wonder why this "surprise attack" from Hamas, that apparently has no name according to Western MSM (unlike the Israeli one), has happened now.
Well... let me tell you why.
Just a few days ago Israeli settlers stormed Al-Aqsa Mosque complex, which Muslims regard the site as the third holiest in Islam, after Mecca and Medina, but of course this was not reported by western MSM - they never report any illegal action by Israel. That was a well-known red line for the Palestinian and Hamas in particular. Israel knew it very well and they decided to cross it. And now you tell me that this attack from Hamas was unexpected? BS!
Now, guess what is the name of the operation launched by Hamas?
Operation Al-Aqsa Flood
Sources:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/why-is-al-aqsa-at-the-centre-of-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict/articleshow/104246087.cms?from=mdr
Sorry but this was a long planned operation organized and supported in Iran.
If it was "a long planned operation", then surely the Mossad must have had plenty of time to pick up signals, since they even have double-agents in Hamas... or were they really sleeping?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-09-17/ty-article-magazine/.premium/sometimes-hamas-turns-israels-spies-into-double-agents-instead-of-killing-them/0000017f-e33d-d568-ad7f-f37f816a0000
we don't know and may never know the answer
"[.......] Israeli censorship is in place."
Thank you, Stephen. After I read your post, I checked out some of the news on twitter and, you are right, there's not much. Can't help but wonder if some of the funding, weapons and planning for these attacks came from Iran.
you don't need to wonder
it was planned in Iran and that is where the training took place and the weapons came from
Apparently they bought a lot of them off the Ukrainians, as well.
That one is super interesting!! I would not be surprised. Could you substantiate this claim please!!
As long as Iran is around, Israel will be more or less slowly bled to death. Today was less slowly.
Sorry, but you're dancing around. The exposure of the American and Israeli LEFT's utter degeneracy here might be the best thing that's happened to both nations in a long time. They can no longer pretend to be anything other than immoral haters, and even better, they can't help exposing themselves as exactly that. Remember that when you hear the call for a "proportional" response once again--because if you don't think it's coming from the people who see "moral equivalence" between a civilized nation and rank, bloodthirsty savages, think again.
Liberate Palestine from khazarian apartheid occupation.
Patriot fiasco in 404, sorry Israel 2.0
Iron dome fiasco in Israel 1.0 today..so many hundreds of billions spent (taxpayers) on overpriced and low level weapons or AD. The future is about drone, and this is a catatrophic news for Israel.
… or for drones …
Don’t forget that YOUR God chose Jews because they chose the God. Think about it brother, with the clever name I like, Natoistan.
A French philosopher I studied with long ago talked about 'a logic of war'.
For Islamists, and the leaders of Hamas in particular, conflict often seems a good idea to strengthen their position (against the PA in particular - they claim the current mass attack was a response to injustice in the West Bank, where Palestinians are represented by those rival leaders - Lawrence of Arabia long ago gave up trying to get Arabs to agree on anything).
Deeper down, culturally, they belong to a tradition where Muslim identity is rooted in conflict, jihad.
At the same time, if you read the Bible, you understand that Jewish identity is also rooted in conflict, or trouble with the neighbours.
I heard a West Bank settler interviewed some time ago who said: 'Without conflict, we lose our identity, forget who we are.'
This mirror of identity through conflict on both sides seems a major problem that's been running for a few thousand years, and probably can't be fixed in a week or month or year or decade, or maybe century...
You write, Stephen, that 'Israel never wanted to send in ground forces and clean out the enemy.'
But what exactly would 'cleaning out the enemy' mean in Gaza, home of the biblical Philistine enemy thousands of years ago?
It would have to mean a repressive military reoccupation, because the roots of enmity are not just Hamas, but thousands of years deeper.
Israel chose to end military occupation of Gaza in the very month that, because of higher birthrates, Palestinians in all land controlled by Israel would become a majority of the population.
And Israel's Western allies, along with the UN, would have had a problem with minority control of a 'land', with no prospect of universal suffrage of the inhabitants.
Like Ukraine with its own deep historical ethnic and cultural tensions, a 'solution' is unlikely to appear in the shorter term.
Western and Eastern Ukrainians (Poland and Russia) came to an understanding in 1667, but trouble has been rumbling on for a while.
Peace between the descendants of Abraham's sons Isaac and Ishmael might take a lot longer.
To the Ancients, monotheism equated with monoculture. One people, one rule, one god.
Democracy and republicanism originated in pantheistic cultures. The family as godhead.
The origin of Greek religion was fertility rites. The young god, born in the spring, of the old sky god and the earth mother. Though by the time of the Olympians, tradition prevailed over renewal, so Zeus didn't give way to Dionysus. Which provided fertile ground for Christianity, as the story of Jesus, crucified and risen in the spring, to take root.
Though by the time Rome adopted it as state religion, it too had started to calcify. So what Rome really wanted was the one god, to validate the Empire rising from the ashes of the Republic. The Big Guy Rules. The basis of the Trinity was obscured.
Logically a spiritual absolute would be the essence of sentience, from which we rise, not an ideal of wisdom and judgement, from which we fell. More the light shining through the film, than the images on it.
The problem is that ideals are not absolutes. Truth, beauty, platonic forms are ideals. Christ is an ideal.
The absolute, on the other hand, has to divisions, distinctions, alternatives, etc. No forms, ideal or otherwise.
So ideals are a very powerful concept. The counterpoint of attraction, the eye of the storm, the grain of sand at the center of the pearl. When we assume the ideal at the center of our particular creed is universal and beyond question and all others are false, the effect is war of all against all. Yet that's the assumption around which Western culture is based.
The reality is nodes and networks, organisms and ecosystems. Synchronization and harmonization. One is the node, oneness is the network.
People who slaughter civilians and murder captured soldiers are uncivilized, butchers and terrorists. These are atrocities that cannot be justified.
“ Palestinian fighters are therefore not terrorists, they are freedom fighters.”
Curious, we’re the same Palestinians freedom fighters during the Black September, which lead them out of Jordan into the Lebanon? … and later out of the Lebanon into the Kuwait? … and later out of Kuwait to the Tunisia? … where delusional Israelis found them and brought to Israel to continue their “freedom” fighting there?