The U.S. wants to get rid of Z&Z and replace them with someone more in tune with their needs. Whatever fable they come up with to get them out of the way is as reliable as Cinderella's. Fortunately for them, they have a press ready to echo all their rumors.
Who blew up the Nordstream Pipeline? When Tucker asked Putin that question Putin said, "You did." Meaning the US. The deep state has shown the world that it requires endless wars. We're fed up, paying attention and taking names!
Somehow I doubt that Putin suddenly started speaking some English with an obvious southern drawl in the middle of an otherwise Russian set of responses.
Exactly. And he would have been right. I don't doubt that some bunch of Ukrainians sitting around a bar started talking about blowing up a Russian pipeline and finally settled on Nordstream. A perfect choice because it was already under long term embargo and wouldn't have an immediate impact on Europe but would be a major blow to Russia. Maybe they even took the proposal to someone in authority who could help facilitate it providing a sort of origin for the current story being floated. But they would have been told at some point....don't worry, we have it well in hand already.......
I feel a bit sorry for the Germans. They are a complete vassal state of the US. They let the US bomb their energy infrastructure and started buying expensive LNG from them (4 times the price of Russian gas). In the meantime, the German Bild Zeitung (most read newspaper) is happy to report that German tanks roll again on Russian soil. And if that wasn't enough, a video of two Bundeswehr generals (or whatever they are) appears online discussing in delight that Ukraine's attack into Kursk could be the turning point of the war.
I have never seen a more delusional country. One wonders why they hate Russia so much and hate themselves even more.
They hate Russia because he defeat them again and again. They are also afraid of ru. It is not a rational fear, but something nailed to their soul along with the superiority syndrome from which they suffer. - Two enemies were traveling on a ship that was about to sink. One at the bow and the other at the stern. When the ship started sinking, the guy at the bow asks the captain. Which part of the ship will sink first? The stern answers the captain. Wonderfully he answers, at least I will die happy
Germany does not border Russia. There is no land to fight over. Unlike Ukraine or the Baltic states, Germany actually got rid of their Nazis after WWII, and embraced peaceful development without a significant revanchist strand in the politics. Last but not least, Germany and Russia had a very lucrative commercial symbiosis, Russians (including, prominently, Putin) looked up to Germany to the point of sacrificing Russia's own development in favor of maximizing that trade relationship, and the result was this made the German economy the center of the EU... All that is gone. The whole current conflict was an externally driven wedge to bring the EU onside with the US in a future confrontation against the East.
"Germany actually got rid of their Nazis after WWII." This is inaccurate. they got rid of the surviving jews. The Nazis manned West Germany's administrative apparatus. There were no others to do it. And there was also the fear of the communist bloc. The military are taught history. The conflict between the Germanic tribes and the Russians/Slavs goes back as far as the Battle of the Ice, which stopped the expansion of the Teutonic Knights to the east. and continued with various episodes until World War II. I agree with you that they commit suicide economically, but rarely do people operate rationally. The European political elite are attached to the chariot of the US and that of the banking system. Europe owes its well-being to the resources of the Third World. To continue to have cheap access there, it is essential that the U.S. remains the big dog in the global neighborhood. Now the war has begun over whether things will remain as they are. And Europe has found itself between the hammer and the anvil.
I don't meant they expelled all the former Nazis, instead, as you probably know, there was a massive and long program of re-education. I.e. to renounce the fascist and ethno-nationalist school, and to uniformally teach the next generation that it was catastrophically wrong. Obviously this was not 100% effective, and hostility was in part redirected vs the Soviet bloc. But for a long time, and I think surprisingly and fortunately, there was not a significant base for the far right. All this is being reversed now. Both because the centrist liberals screwed up so badly, and because the MSM simultaneously makes heroes out of the fascists, to support NATO policy. Regarding US being the big dog .... both US and EU are becoming uncompetitive in Asia (not just vs China but vs Korea, Japan, Vietnam). In competing with the rest of the world, the big dog will feel the need to take more from the EU.
>>>>>>Germany and Russia had a very lucrative commercial symbiosis.<<<<<
NAILED IT.
But scumbag Boris Johnson believed that the symbiosis adversely affected European Hegemony. So he conviced our alleged President, the demented woke son of a bitch to provoke Russia into invading Ukraine and then use the invadasion as a a pretext to blow up NS 1 & 2.
The media's job is not to describe a situation or analyze the possible scenarios around it. Their job is to create realities. the WSJ article is simply comical. And yet we are discussing seriously about it. Six Ukrainian divers destroyed Europe's largest pipeline. And one is even called Vlodimir Z. How conveniently cheap. Why not Santa Claus and five of the reindeer? It is just as likely. Of course NATO knew about the Ukrainian attacks. All of them. Perhaps it is that victory has many fathers while Defeat has none. But maybe the U.S. sees war coming with Iran and wants to disengage from Ukraine, by putting all the blame on the Ukrainians in order to save face.
As you state Stephen, the Andromeda story (yes including the name of the yacht and the size of the crew and even the detail of a woman on board) came out a week or so after Hersh's far more plausible story. Not only are all the details of Hersh's story more plausible, it also contains plausible reasons of why it was leaked to Hersh - because the IC was incensed that Biden blew the opsec of what was supposed to be a covert diplomatic lever, not barely-disguised act of terrorism against NATO allies.
A group of German investigative journalists rented the yacht the Ukranians supposedly used. These journalists came to the conclusion that it is a joke to think the operation was carried on said yacht.
Flying of the national flag of registration is by custom off the stern or very back of the vessel. Again by custom, any other flags or pennants are flown optionly on other parts of the vessel. But it seems that if this was indeed a very secret operation, the fact of flying of the Ukrainian national flag any where on the vessel, would be highly suspect. While this is a relatively small point, it does reflect a certain amount doubt on the believability of the entire article on my part.
In this case the boat was registered in Germany. You do often see yacht crew flying flags of their own nationality rather than the boat's. Slightly incorrect but it certainly happens. But in this case - why would they?
While I share the skepticism I could accept the UKR pennant if the crew were unable to disguise their Ukrainian accents from maritime officials they came in contact with? But that's a stretch.
At the risk of carrying this thread far beyond any significance, their cover for this "operation" I assume was they were Ukrainian tourists. So any issue of trying to fool port authorities into believing otherwise does not seem to be an issue to me
But they would have been smart to prepare for those interactions. Normally you can't enter a marina or port to berth a yacht (claimed to have happened 4-5 times by the WSJ) without interacting with local petty officials.
It may be that 'the West' now wants a 'negotiated peace', but there is no evidence that Ukraine or Russia do so.
On the contrary, Russia has to be even more determined to eliminate Ukraine after the highly publicized Kursk invasion, while Ukraine has nothing to look forward to from such a negotiation, at best much less than what they were offered in April of 2022.
For Ukraine, anything that disrupts the existing slow strangulation is desirable, even if it is detrimental longer term.
The CIA does NOT want a negotiated peace , they want to use Ukraine as a battering ram against Moscow in order to remove Putin and possibly the balkanization of Russia,
They recognize that Ukraine is inadequate for either Putin's removal or the balkanization of Russia. So they are likely to cut their losses, leaving the State Dept to sort out the mess.
As far as I know the USG has not even denied Hersh's version. When asked about it they just responded "Hersh is a known fantasist" or words to that effect. They didn't deny the story as such.
Very conveniently for the WSJ, everyone in the story is either anonymous, or has diplomatic immunity. On and the corroborating evidence was all destroyed by the pesky Poles. And the open source "evidence" is - a map of the Baltic. With marks placed on it without any sourcing.
Reminds me of the Russiagate hoax where the Biden BOJ indicted a bunch of Russians they knew would never give any testimony.
some agencies have been reviewing the case files for Syngman Rhee and Ngo Dinh Diem. Once a conclusion is reached, TPTB will notify its downstream mouth pieces to act. WSJ is but one of such mouth piece.
The Kursk incursion is a typical Budanov escalation attempting to draw Washington further in, as many there try to distance themselves from a failed project.
And the main reason Russia was so poorly prepared was that no sane military strategist would waste so many of their best troops and weapons on a pointless raid into empty farmland with no military logic - other than to desperately try and draw back in the retreating sponsor.
The gas facility at the border is hardly a target, as Ukraine still very paradoxically derives revenue from Russian transit fees through a pipeline to Europe they could easily close anywhere in Ukraine (after they ruptured a competing pipeline from which they derived no income, probably with help from Polish GROM who were certainly capable and motivated to carry out the operation).
Russia is fighting a war of attrition designed mainly to exhaust Ukraine's far lesser resources, rather than occupy further large areas of Ukraine.
Given the far higher cost to Ukraine in men and material of the current bizarre spectacle, compared with the ongoing defence of the homeland, which it disproportionately depletes, many in Washington must be tearing their hair out.
I am afraid that you overestimate the ability of Washington to be upset or accountable for their delusional actions (tearing hair out?) It doesn’t matter how many people were killed and how many regions were destabilized, they will move to another bloody project. We even not going to hear “Oops, I’ve done it again”.
I think one should probably distinguish between the collective amorality of American Neioimperialism, that you rightly emphasize, and many frustrated individual actors who may occasionally think about what their hegemonic patron is doing and getting them to do, and about better ways of pursuing their nominal goals.
Of course the main players directing policy from the MIC just laugh all the way to the bank whatever happens.
PS: I just saw that a former head of GROM felt the need to tell Polish TV two days ago explicity that 'he didn't think" Polish special forces would have been involved in Nord-Stream.
Since 1990 GROM has a long history of of training and joint operations with Seals and SBS. One of three divisions, based in Gdansk, specializes in marine and submarine operations.
The WSJ is compromised. Elements are clearly untrue, but which ones? All of them? The current Administrations efforts to backdoor Ukraine and also Israel are despicable. They have recklessly brought us to the brink of a major war. They continue to behave recklessly as they try to unwind the mess.
What I have been reading for the last few weeks is the West now wants a negotiated peace, and Zelensky is an obstacle to that, so he needs to go. He may be taking desperate measures to avoid that fate. Or he may be being tricked into taking actions that will seal it.
Fakeout negotiations, in particular verbal signal of wanting to climb down, followed within days by a parallel or lateral escalation, followed by blaming the counterparty for ignoring the (fake) verbal olive branch, are a specific habit of the Blinken/Sullivan foreign policy team. It's a mode of trying to get the other side to accept a "salami slicing" pattern, and not unique to them, of course, but very much in their style. Clear to everyone in the world by now except perhaps some of the Europeans.
Yes, he benefits from the status quo, and his ultra-nationalist partners in government too. But their relationship with US/NATO, they are so completely dependent, it's hard to believe they do any more or less than they're told. If there's any disagreement, I'm pretty sure it would be among factions within the US side.
The U.S. wants to get rid of Z&Z and replace them with someone more in tune with their needs. Whatever fable they come up with to get them out of the way is as reliable as Cinderella's. Fortunately for them, they have a press ready to echo all their rumors.
Who blew up the Nordstream Pipeline? When Tucker asked Putin that question Putin said, "You did." Meaning the US. The deep state has shown the world that it requires endless wars. We're fed up, paying attention and taking names!
CIA CULPA
How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
Putin did not answer Tucker "you". In fact, he said "Y'all" He meant the United States
I know he meant the US and said as much.
Somehow I doubt that Putin suddenly started speaking some English with an obvious southern drawl in the middle of an otherwise Russian set of responses.
He also said "howdy pardner" while tipping his 10 gallon hat
To be completely honest, he meant "Your gang did it."
Putin replied in Russian. He meant the plural of people, namely Americans. How else can it be translated?
In English it would be "You lot" - NATO - rather than folksy American "Y'all".
Exactly. And he would have been right. I don't doubt that some bunch of Ukrainians sitting around a bar started talking about blowing up a Russian pipeline and finally settled on Nordstream. A perfect choice because it was already under long term embargo and wouldn't have an immediate impact on Europe but would be a major blow to Russia. Maybe they even took the proposal to someone in authority who could help facilitate it providing a sort of origin for the current story being floated. But they would have been told at some point....don't worry, we have it well in hand already.......
Zelensky became rogue when he remained in office as president after his term ended on May 21st.
Since February 2014 Ukraine has been a CIA Colony. He will remain in power as long as he is useful to the CIA.
I feel a bit sorry for the Germans. They are a complete vassal state of the US. They let the US bomb their energy infrastructure and started buying expensive LNG from them (4 times the price of Russian gas). In the meantime, the German Bild Zeitung (most read newspaper) is happy to report that German tanks roll again on Russian soil. And if that wasn't enough, a video of two Bundeswehr generals (or whatever they are) appears online discussing in delight that Ukraine's attack into Kursk could be the turning point of the war.
I have never seen a more delusional country. One wonders why they hate Russia so much and hate themselves even more.
They hate Russia because he defeat them again and again. They are also afraid of ru. It is not a rational fear, but something nailed to their soul along with the superiority syndrome from which they suffer. - Two enemies were traveling on a ship that was about to sink. One at the bow and the other at the stern. When the ship started sinking, the guy at the bow asks the captain. Which part of the ship will sink first? The stern answers the captain. Wonderfully he answers, at least I will die happy
Germany does not border Russia. There is no land to fight over. Unlike Ukraine or the Baltic states, Germany actually got rid of their Nazis after WWII, and embraced peaceful development without a significant revanchist strand in the politics. Last but not least, Germany and Russia had a very lucrative commercial symbiosis, Russians (including, prominently, Putin) looked up to Germany to the point of sacrificing Russia's own development in favor of maximizing that trade relationship, and the result was this made the German economy the center of the EU... All that is gone. The whole current conflict was an externally driven wedge to bring the EU onside with the US in a future confrontation against the East.
"Germany actually got rid of their Nazis after WWII." This is inaccurate. they got rid of the surviving jews. The Nazis manned West Germany's administrative apparatus. There were no others to do it. And there was also the fear of the communist bloc. The military are taught history. The conflict between the Germanic tribes and the Russians/Slavs goes back as far as the Battle of the Ice, which stopped the expansion of the Teutonic Knights to the east. and continued with various episodes until World War II. I agree with you that they commit suicide economically, but rarely do people operate rationally. The European political elite are attached to the chariot of the US and that of the banking system. Europe owes its well-being to the resources of the Third World. To continue to have cheap access there, it is essential that the U.S. remains the big dog in the global neighborhood. Now the war has begun over whether things will remain as they are. And Europe has found itself between the hammer and the anvil.
I don't meant they expelled all the former Nazis, instead, as you probably know, there was a massive and long program of re-education. I.e. to renounce the fascist and ethno-nationalist school, and to uniformally teach the next generation that it was catastrophically wrong. Obviously this was not 100% effective, and hostility was in part redirected vs the Soviet bloc. But for a long time, and I think surprisingly and fortunately, there was not a significant base for the far right. All this is being reversed now. Both because the centrist liberals screwed up so badly, and because the MSM simultaneously makes heroes out of the fascists, to support NATO policy. Regarding US being the big dog .... both US and EU are becoming uncompetitive in Asia (not just vs China but vs Korea, Japan, Vietnam). In competing with the rest of the world, the big dog will feel the need to take more from the EU.
>>>>>>Germany and Russia had a very lucrative commercial symbiosis.<<<<<
NAILED IT.
But scumbag Boris Johnson believed that the symbiosis adversely affected European Hegemony. So he conviced our alleged President, the demented woke son of a bitch to provoke Russia into invading Ukraine and then use the invadasion as a a pretext to blow up NS 1 & 2.
contempt may be more appropriate than pity
Let the stupid motherfuckers freeze to death
Of course the entire story is 169% weapons grade bullshit.
Doesn't matter, as these are now the Serious People Instructions. Sort of like Iraq being chock a block with WMDs.
The media's job is not to describe a situation or analyze the possible scenarios around it. Their job is to create realities. the WSJ article is simply comical. And yet we are discussing seriously about it. Six Ukrainian divers destroyed Europe's largest pipeline. And one is even called Vlodimir Z. How conveniently cheap. Why not Santa Claus and five of the reindeer? It is just as likely. Of course NATO knew about the Ukrainian attacks. All of them. Perhaps it is that victory has many fathers while Defeat has none. But maybe the U.S. sees war coming with Iran and wants to disengage from Ukraine, by putting all the blame on the Ukrainians in order to save face.
The Mockingbird Media aka the SEE BS Network , will publish WHATEVER the CIA wants.
Agreed. Plus, it's a very, very dangerous dive.
As you state Stephen, the Andromeda story (yes including the name of the yacht and the size of the crew and even the detail of a woman on board) came out a week or so after Hersh's far more plausible story. Not only are all the details of Hersh's story more plausible, it also contains plausible reasons of why it was leaked to Hersh - because the IC was incensed that Biden blew the opsec of what was supposed to be a covert diplomatic lever, not barely-disguised act of terrorism against NATO allies.
A group of German investigative journalists rented the yacht the Ukranians supposedly used. These journalists came to the conclusion that it is a joke to think the operation was carried on said yacht.
would like to have a link to the story
Flying of the national flag of registration is by custom off the stern or very back of the vessel. Again by custom, any other flags or pennants are flown optionly on other parts of the vessel. But it seems that if this was indeed a very secret operation, the fact of flying of the Ukrainian national flag any where on the vessel, would be highly suspect. While this is a relatively small point, it does reflect a certain amount doubt on the believability of the entire article on my part.
In this case the boat was registered in Germany. You do often see yacht crew flying flags of their own nationality rather than the boat's. Slightly incorrect but it certainly happens. But in this case - why would they?
While I share the skepticism I could accept the UKR pennant if the crew were unable to disguise their Ukrainian accents from maritime officials they came in contact with? But that's a stretch.
At the risk of carrying this thread far beyond any significance, their cover for this "operation" I assume was they were Ukrainian tourists. So any issue of trying to fool port authorities into believing otherwise does not seem to be an issue to me
There are no reports of contacts between the crew and others.
But they would have been smart to prepare for those interactions. Normally you can't enter a marina or port to berth a yacht (claimed to have happened 4-5 times by the WSJ) without interacting with local petty officials.
It may be that 'the West' now wants a 'negotiated peace', but there is no evidence that Ukraine or Russia do so.
On the contrary, Russia has to be even more determined to eliminate Ukraine after the highly publicized Kursk invasion, while Ukraine has nothing to look forward to from such a negotiation, at best much less than what they were offered in April of 2022.
For Ukraine, anything that disrupts the existing slow strangulation is desirable, even if it is detrimental longer term.
The CIA does NOT want a negotiated peace , they want to use Ukraine as a battering ram against Moscow in order to remove Putin and possibly the balkanization of Russia,
The CIA is not delusional.
They recognize that Ukraine is inadequate for either Putin's removal or the balkanization of Russia. So they are likely to cut their losses, leaving the State Dept to sort out the mess.
Respectfully disagee - the CIA is not only delusional but BRAIN DEAD
Let Colonel McGregor explain:
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1504642843901636609
.
As far as I know the USG has not even denied Hersh's version. When asked about it they just responded "Hersh is a known fantasist" or words to that effect. They didn't deny the story as such.
Very conveniently for the WSJ, everyone in the story is either anonymous, or has diplomatic immunity. On and the corroborating evidence was all destroyed by the pesky Poles. And the open source "evidence" is - a map of the Baltic. With marks placed on it without any sourcing.
Reminds me of the Russiagate hoax where the Biden BOJ indicted a bunch of Russians they knew would never give any testimony.
some agencies have been reviewing the case files for Syngman Rhee and Ngo Dinh Diem. Once a conclusion is reached, TPTB will notify its downstream mouth pieces to act. WSJ is but one of such mouth piece.
The Kursk incursion is a typical Budanov escalation attempting to draw Washington further in, as many there try to distance themselves from a failed project.
And the main reason Russia was so poorly prepared was that no sane military strategist would waste so many of their best troops and weapons on a pointless raid into empty farmland with no military logic - other than to desperately try and draw back in the retreating sponsor.
The gas facility at the border is hardly a target, as Ukraine still very paradoxically derives revenue from Russian transit fees through a pipeline to Europe they could easily close anywhere in Ukraine (after they ruptured a competing pipeline from which they derived no income, probably with help from Polish GROM who were certainly capable and motivated to carry out the operation).
Russia is fighting a war of attrition designed mainly to exhaust Ukraine's far lesser resources, rather than occupy further large areas of Ukraine.
Given the far higher cost to Ukraine in men and material of the current bizarre spectacle, compared with the ongoing defence of the homeland, which it disproportionately depletes, many in Washington must be tearing their hair out.
So, what is the Zelensky junta playing at? It’s a terror tantrum to try to show his NATO sponsors that their proxy regime is still worth backing.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2024/08/no_author/nato-and-its-kiev-proxy-in-last-roll-of-the-dice/
I am afraid that you overestimate the ability of Washington to be upset or accountable for their delusional actions (tearing hair out?) It doesn’t matter how many people were killed and how many regions were destabilized, they will move to another bloody project. We even not going to hear “Oops, I’ve done it again”.
Good point. Washington is also full of people that believe a nuclear war is winnable.
I think one should probably distinguish between the collective amorality of American Neioimperialism, that you rightly emphasize, and many frustrated individual actors who may occasionally think about what their hegemonic patron is doing and getting them to do, and about better ways of pursuing their nominal goals.
Of course the main players directing policy from the MIC just laugh all the way to the bank whatever happens.
PS: I just saw that a former head of GROM felt the need to tell Polish TV two days ago explicity that 'he didn't think" Polish special forces would have been involved in Nord-Stream.
Since 1990 GROM has a long history of of training and joint operations with Seals and SBS. One of three divisions, based in Gdansk, specializes in marine and submarine operations.
Biden and his team are leaving, so people associated with the explosion of the Nord Stream are trying to cover their tracks. Is that clear
Susan Rice's "by the book" email comes to mind.
The WSJ is compromised. Elements are clearly untrue, but which ones? All of them? The current Administrations efforts to backdoor Ukraine and also Israel are despicable. They have recklessly brought us to the brink of a major war. They continue to behave recklessly as they try to unwind the mess.
What I have been reading for the last few weeks is the West now wants a negotiated peace, and Zelensky is an obstacle to that, so he needs to go. He may be taking desperate measures to avoid that fate. Or he may be being tricked into taking actions that will seal it.
Fakeout negotiations, in particular verbal signal of wanting to climb down, followed within days by a parallel or lateral escalation, followed by blaming the counterparty for ignoring the (fake) verbal olive branch, are a specific habit of the Blinken/Sullivan foreign policy team. It's a mode of trying to get the other side to accept a "salami slicing" pattern, and not unique to them, of course, but very much in their style. Clear to everyone in the world by now except perhaps some of the Europeans.
Maybe. Or maybe Zelensky wanted to disrupt an imminent outline peace deal.
Yes, he benefits from the status quo, and his ultra-nationalist partners in government too. But their relationship with US/NATO, they are so completely dependent, it's hard to believe they do any more or less than they're told. If there's any disagreement, I'm pretty sure it would be among factions within the US side.
Fair point.